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Richard Deane

I think an Avenger with boarding troopers is going to be able to ruin anything anyway. It'll just have to get in close enough and send over the boarding troops. At a squadron value of 4 there'll be nothing that isn't exhausted so no spending can be done. From what I saw you use the boarding troopers when you reveal the command so before attacking.

Under more regular circumstances I'm thinking that a swarm of character ties with Sloane and at least one quasar with the stronghold title is going to make for a very nasty brick to break without extreme ship based firepower.

Alex

Back from Birmingham - suffice to say I didn't have enough activations! (and in one game, black dice luck!).

Was a slaughter, but a useful one!

Richard Deane

Glad to hear you had a good time.

Alex

Richard/ Dom,

You guys want a game a piece next week? Looking to try out some post Euro thrashing fleets ahead of the local tournaments...

Richard Deane

Always happy to give you a game. Still want to give that rapid launch bay list a proper outing.

Alex

Awesome, cheers! Will see you next Tues!

Alex

This is the first list I want to try - its a Rebel version of the Euros winning list (a Motti ISD backed up by 4 flotillas and a solid Rhymer ball). The extreme amount of activations is to allow the Lib to do what it wants, when it wants, and facilitate placement, with each flotilla having some trickery it can perform. Madine as Admiral.

1 • MC80 Star Cruiser - General Madine - Raymus Antilles - Gunnery Team - Engine Techs - Leading Shots - H9 Turbolasers - Spinal Armament (169)
2 • GR-75 Medium Transports - Slicer Tools (25)
3 • GR-75 Medium Transports - Slicer Tools (25)
4 • GR-75 Medium Transports - Comms Net (20)
5 • GR-75 Medium Transports - Comms Net (20)
6 • GR-75 Medium Transports - Leia Organa - Repair Crews (25)
7 • GR-75 Medium Transports - Jamming Field (20)
8 • Shara Bey A-wing Squadron (17)
9 • Tycho Celchu A-wing Squadron (16)
10 • A-wing Squadron (11)
11 • A-wing Squadron (11)
12 • A-wing Squadron (11)
13 • A-wing Squadron (11)

Alex

And here is the second - twin MC30s with transports to pad out activations/ add trickery, with decent fighter cover.

1 • MC30c Torpedo Frigate - Mon Mothma - Lando Calrissian - Ordnance Experts - Reinforced Blast Doors - Assault Proton Torpedoes - XI7 Turbolasers - Foresight (125)
2 • MC30c Torpedo Frigate - Walex Blissex - Ordnance Experts - Reinforced Blast Doors - Assault Proton Torpedoes - XI7 Turbolasers - Admonition (96)
3 • GR-75 Medium Transports - Slicer Tools (25)
4 • GR-75 Medium Transports - Slicer Tools (25)
5 • GR-75 Medium Transports - Comms Net (20)
6 • GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
7 • Shara Bey A-wing Squadron (17)
8 • Tycho Celchu A-wing Squadron (16)
9 • A-wing Squadron (11)
10 • A-wing Squadron (11)
11 • A-wing Squadron (11)
12 • A-wing Squadron (11)

Basically this and the above list are based on experiences from the Euros (more activations to dictate the flow of battle more, with a more substantial fighter cover).

Currently preferring the Lib list, but keen to see what you think.

Richard Deane

That is a lot of activations and I've a lot of respect for the A-wing mobs. I'm very curious to see how it does on the table. In some ways I suspect the activation advantage will depend on how the face-off unfolds because, although the liberty has a punishing amount of firepower it's also not as sturdy as some if it can be outmanoeuvred. Not likely with the deployment advantage it's likely to have but I'm going to be very interested to see what happens.

One thing that I think may swing things will be the impact of my little Suppressor gozanti with minister Tua. Forcing you to spend defense tokens has a huge impact on the survivability of transports. I've learnt my lesson with that ship and it's on escort duty staying close to the ISD.

With any luck, this time I will get the firesprays out of the ship during the game.

Alex

Yeah, the Lib one is a very fragile list, with the ship itself and the concentration of killing power in it. If that goes i doubt the A Wings could carry the day. Activation and deployment advantage are certainly key (more key than i thought pre Euros).

Richard Deane

I forgot to mention, I made a few small changes to that rapid launch bay list. I dropped flight controllers for gunnery team and changed the ISD title from Avenger to relentless. I've also swapped the impetuous title on the raider for Instigator as I believe this means it can trap enemy squadrons by engaging them. This means the list is now 399pts.

I still think that activation advantage isn't necessarily as beneficial as it seems so long as you can play the broadside game. I suppose that's why the arquiten list is so interesting because it can engage parallel to an enemy fleet are are individually tough enough to take at least one round of enemy fire at long range. Another thing that can strongly counter the advantage in activations are those lists with very potent squadron balls. Particularly those with the rogue advantage. At some point I should look at the decimators, those things have a lot of hit boxes, modest but reliable anti-squadron fire and less reliable but potentially potent anti-ship fire. (Plus they have counter 1 natively!)

Alex

I totally agree on you with activations - they're an advantage, but certainly not the be-all-and-end-all. Im having this debate on the forum right now with the anti-flotilla doom mongers. As you say, potent squadrons can take them on nicely (and conversely, lots of flots balances squadrons out). Decimators look great fun!

Make a tweak to the list on a suggestion from a forum bod, reducing by one flotilla to add some fancy officers, most notably Toryn Farr:

1 • MC80 Star Cruiser - General Madine - Raymus Antilles - Gunnery Team - Engine Techs - Leading Shots - Spinal Armament - H9 Turbolasers - Liberty (172)
2 • GR-75 Medium Transports - Walex Blissex - Slicer Tools - Bright Hope (32)
3 • GR-75 Medium Transports - Slicer Tools - Quantum Storm (26)
4 • GR-75 Medium Transports - Leia Organa - Repair Crews (25)
5 • GR-75 Medium Transports - Toryn Farr - Boosted Comms (29)
6 • GR-75 Medium Transports - Ahsoka Tano - Comms Net - Boosted Comms (26)
7 • Shara Bey A-wing Squadron (17)
8 • Tycho Celchu A-wing Squadron (16)
9 • A-wing Squadron (11)
10 • A-wing Squadron (11)
11 • A-wing Squadron (11)
12 • A-wing Squadron (11)

Alex

Hey Richard, apologies for late notice but can only do one game tomorrow. Presume you have/ could have a warmahordes/ Infinity game lined up as well but thought i'd give warning!

Richard Deane

No worries. What time do you expect to arrive or need to leave?

Alex

Will aim to arrive 1700ish? The Grand Admiral has requested my presence for later in the evening :(

Richard Deane

Ok, not entirely sure what time I'll be arriving but will try to get in as early as I can.

Alex

Thank you again for the game today Richard.

This is roughly what im looking to field next week, may dropping or adding a flotilla. Perhaps most significantly, its 400 points on the dot!:

[ REBEL FLEET (400 points)
1 • Modified Pelta-class Command Ship - Raymus Antilles - All Fighters, Follow Me! - Boosted Comms (76)
2 • GR-75 Medium Transports - Bomber Command Center - Boosted Comms (30)
3 • Corran Horn E-wing Squadron (22)
4 • E-wing Squadron (15)
5 • E-wing Squadron (15)
6 • E-wing Squadron (15)
7 • E-wing Squadron (15)
8 • E-wing Squadron (15)
9 • E-wing Squadron (15)
10 • GR-75 Medium Transports - Toryn Farr - Bomber Command Center - Boosted Comms (37)
11 • MC30c Torpedo Frigate - Mon Mothma - Walex Blissex - Ordnance Experts - Reinforced Blast Doors - Assault Proton Torpedoes - XI7 Turbolasers - Admonition (126)
12 • Jan Ors Moldy Crow (19)

Richard Deane

That is an interesting list, lots of worrisome squadrons. Somewhat contrarily I've been going down the opposite route. I've wanted to try out Vader as an admiral for a while and just could never feel happy with a list. This is the first list where I'm sort of okay with it, at least enough to put it on the table.

ISD 2 with skilled first officer, gunnery team, quad laser turrets, electronic counter measures, spinal armament and overload pulse.
ISD 2 with Vader, Avenger title, skilled first officer, gunnery team, electronic counter measures and spinal armament.

2x aggressor assault fighters
IG-88

Missions are Blockade run, capture the VIP and dangerous territory.

Alex

A slightly savage nerfing has occurred to Armada! Off the top of my head:

- Rieekan is now only one ship/ ace per round
- Demolisher is now only able to fire after its main move, not an engine tech move
- TRCs are now "exhaust"
- No more admirals on flotillas
- Rhymer is now ship close range rather than ship medium (so better than fighter range one but not amazing anymore).

Nothing there that'll particularly affect me except the TRCs really.

Domo

Ah yes, I tried to post this last night, but my phone wasn't playing nice with the club forum.

The other thing you missed was that Bomber Command isn't stackable anymore. You only get 1 reroll, and that's it - no matter how many flotillas you have running it.

:: Aspect of Aleph ::
Playing:
Infinity WarmaHordes Batman/Marvel
Star Wars X-Wing/Armada

Alex

Im quite pleased all round with these - especially Bomber Command (despite having used it just yesterday). Always thought it was a little too much.

This is the kind of list Im looking to use next week. May try and squeeze a Corvette in somehow. 400 points - bidding for second!

[ REBEL FLEET (400 points)
1 • MC80 Assault Cruiser - Admiral Ackbar - Raymus Antilles - Engine Techs - Electronic Countermeasures - Reinforced Blast Doors - Leading Shots - H9 Turbolasers - Home One (198)
2 • Assault Frigate Mark II B - Skilled First Officer - Gunnery Team - Electronic Countermeasures - Enhanced Armament (97)
3 • GR-75 Medium Transports - Leia Organa - Repair Crews (25)
4 • GR-75 Medium Transports - Boosted Comms (22)
5 • Lieutenant Blount Z-95 Headhunter Squadron (14)
6 • Z-95 Headhunter Squadron (7)
7 • Z-95 Headhunter Squadron (7)
8 • Objectives - Most Wanted - Planetary Ion Cannon - Sensor Net (0)
9 • VCX-100 Freighter (15)
10 • VCX-100 Freighter (15)

Richard Deane

I've not seen the z-95s before, or the VCX-100. I'll be interested to see how the rematch goes. I did quite like the Vader list, need to remember how to fly ISDs to get those front arcs lined up properly though.

Alex

Aye, banking manoeuvre tokens early on could be useful for this.

For tournament list im thinking of switching out the APTs for Expanded Launchers with Intel Officer, OE and Xi7s - APTs are nice for a potential 2 face ups with "maybe" a couple of face downs if shots go through, but for raw killing power (in one shot) im not liking them. What do you think? (on an MC30 btw)

Richard Deane

It sounds brutal but it also has an impact on your survival odds since you'd need to ditch Walex Blissex or Major Derlin who you normally included to help ensure the survival of said MC30. Whilst Mothma and Admonition are amazing for increased survivability I do feel that although the intel officer will likely get you the kill on a smaller ship it might cost you the MC30. Potentially on the approach.

Another thing that your ATPs have generally done for you on our games is ensure that crippling crit effects go through in spite of containment tokens which has often made a significant difference.

It's definitely worth playing to see how it works out for you but I'm not sure if it'll really make the difference. Smaller ships you tend to blitz currently anyway and the bigger ones will still likely survive one exchange if their shield were up at the start. I know you like your tricks to strip shields ahead of the MC30 run but it's not always easy.

Alex

Aye, it does take away from their lastability - will have to give one a whirl tonight and see how it goes!

Richard Deane

I've been trying to find a Konstantine list I feel happy about. This is what I have currently.

ISD 2 with avenger title, Admiral Konstantine, gunnery team, quad laser turrets, electronic countermeasures, leading shots and XI7 turbo-lasers

Interdictor suppression refit, interdictor title, admiral Titus, shield projectors, G-8 experimental projector, G7-X grav-well projector

Gozanti with suppressor title, Minister Tua, electronic countermeasures, comms net

Class 1 Raider with instigator title, agent Kallus, Ordinance experts, quad laser turrets

Valen Rudor

Missions are; Superior positions, Capture the VIP and Blockade run. List comes to 399pts.

Alex

Sorry for delayed reply - this is pretty solid no? It seems very resilient. Could swap G7s for target scramblers to make it even more tanky? I think its better value than the G7s for the 6 turns.

Alex

Think I'm going to give this little guy a whirl tonight as a cheaper MC30 replacement:

CR90B
Dodonna's Pride
Reinforced Blast Doors
Leading Shots
Engine Techs

Pretty much guaranteed minimum 2 face-downs, with potential for 2 extra face ups with a double arc, in a turn. May even take this along to the tournaments if it does well.

Richard Deane

That looks pretty mean. Will just that to hope I find a way to stop it ever getting to unload a full volley of shots into anything.

Alex

Wave 6 has arrived! Fancy taking the Quasar out for a spin next tues?!

Richard Deane

I do fancy seeing what how the new releases change things. Here's an initial list using a Quasar and Sloane.

Gladiator 1st class with Sloane, Admiral Montferrat, Demolisher title, Ordnance experts, Assault proton torpedoes, Engine techs.

Gozanti with Suppressor title, minister Tua, ECM, Expanded hanger bay, comms net

Gozanti assault carrier (the other one), expanded hanger bay, bomber command

Quasar with stronghold title, expanded hanger bay, boarding troops

Mauler Mithel
Howlrunner
Dengar
Major Rhymer
4x Tie squadrons
4x Tie bomber squadrons

Missions are Most wanted, Fighter ambush and Superior positions.

Alex

I haven't settled on a set up yet, but a Hammer Torpedo ship with something like Garel's Honour, Boarding Troops and External Racks is what Im looking at. There's a video on the forum with a guy rolling 11 damage with concentrate fire with a similar set up! About 1 in 8000 odds apparently...

Richard Deane

What do you make of the squadron selection. It's a lot more than I'm used to fielding and I'm looking at the interaction of Dengar with Howlrunner being quite interesting to see.

Alex

Having an extra counter dice plus a bonus for Howlrunner AND having the Sloane effect on these, combined with stronghold for endurance makes it literally a stronghold of fighters! You may be just over the 400 point fighter limit mind (is 134).

Richard Deane

Ah, well spotted. It should be 3 bombers and 5 regular ties. I made the squadron selection at the start of the list building and later found myself with a couple of points spare. Mistakenly thought I could play around with the squadrons still.

I believe swarm will work for counter shots as well so the fighter ball could be very difficult to shift despite their pathetic 3 hull each.

Alex

I reckon strong hold would go a long way to mitigating their 3 hull, could maybe squeeze in Tempest squadron for escort whilst keeping bomber ability? Would make Dengar less vulnerable to assassination as well.

Richard Deane

I'm hoping that better placement will help keep Dengar alive as his benefit granting counter goes out to distance 2 and unless you bring intel as well (or Tycho) I'm hoping the swarm will tie down opposing fighters. Since he has swarm himself he benefits from stronghold (and howlrunner too).

I have been considering dropping the regular ties and Rhymer for 4 squadrons of regular interceptors and putting the bombers to 4 squadrons again. (Counter 2 base with dengar and howlrunner seems strong and they benefit from stronghold as well.)

Richard Deane

Thank you for the games. Apologies for the screw up with the list change for the second game. Sloane was very impressive though and whilst I've nothing nice to say about the quasar chassis itself the stronghold title completely changes the way imperial ties can be fielded. Playing as I did with an aim to hog the area around the station means they because they can survive (usually) at least one round of shots against them from other squadrons and most ships can't touch them at all they can hop over to the station for repairs.

I'm very much in love with that mix of squadrons, although I am looking at perhaps (with much reluctance) dropping Mithel for Rhymer just so I can attack ships without ranging out quite so far. It'll keep the fleet closer together and stop me from letting the squadrons get out of command range. Another change that I realise probably needs to be made is putting minister Tua on the quasar for the ECM, just so I can use that brace/redirect when I want. Also looking at dropping the boarding troops so I can get boosted comms. Lots of tweaks to look at.

Richard Deane

How did the Kirton Event go Alex?

I wanted to ask you a question about Sloane. I noticed this on the Armada forums and although the answer seems solid enough it was also pointed out that an event organiser and the head Ref ruled the other way. How do you feel about the following?

Player A with Sloane as admiral has a squadron attack an enemy squadron, they roll two accuracies and a number of hits. They use one accuracy to lock one defence token and the other to spend the defenders other token. Does the defender get the benefit of this token? Can the defender spend this token (thus discarding it)?

The thread seemed quite clear that the defender in this instance neither benefits from the tokens effect, nor is able to spend it because of the interactions at play regarding who is spending the tokens, their timing and how this is also within the timing of a single attack. However I can see some arguments around some elements of this so would like to hear your opinion on it. (Dom, please chime in with your own thoughts on the matter as well.)

Alex

Unfortunately i couldnt make the Kirton tournament due to a last minute change :( Shame, because i could have placed in the top ten (i think there were 12 people approx. attending :D )

Have you got the link for the thread? Im very curious about this.

Found it - the use of "spend" rather than "exhaust" i think is pretty key. If its spent then, following the rule a defence token can be only be spent once per turn, it cannot be used at all. As its in the "resolve attack effects" stage, then Id go with the token having no effect as well.

All said - for 24 points that makes her very potent. Im curious to see how its ruled from here on out.

Richard Deane

I've heard from someone else that 16 people attended. My commiserations on your having missed it. I know you were looking forward to it.

Using our two games as anecdotal evidence and assuming Sloane works as we seem to think she does I agree that she appears quite powerful. The fact that spending the opponent's token also prevents them from spending it as well is an interaction I had not originally seen and makes it a lot more powerful than she appeared even in our games.

In spite of that I've been looking at some completely different list ideas just because I hate using stuff with unclear rule interactions. One is a Vader arquiten list and the other a Konstantine Victory list.

Arquiten light cruiser with Vader, Admiral Montferrat, Enhanced armament
Arquiten light cruiser with enhanced armament
Arquiten light cruiser with enhanced armament
Arquiten light cruiser with enhanced armament
Raider 1st class with ordnance experts, instigator, agent kallus
Raider 1st class with ordnance experts

Missions are Blockade run, Capture the VIP and Dangerous territory.

The Konstantine list is as follows;

Victory 1st class, ordnance experts, external racks, spinal armament
Victory 1st class, ordnance experts, external racks, XI-7 turbo lasers
Interdictor suppression refit, interdictor title, Projection experts, GX-7 grav well, G-8 experimental projector
Gozanti, suppressor title, minister Tua, ECM, Comms net
Raider 1st class, instigator, agent kallus and ordnance experts

Missions for this list are Precision strike, capture the VIP, minefields

Alex

Very keen to play the Konstantine list, looks fun!

The Vader one would be great to see comparison between this and your Tarkin one - i think this could lay out more damage.

Richard Deane

Glad you like the look of the Konstantine list. The hope is that Konstantine and the interdictor can slow down and speed up different ships to screw with your fleet formation as well as mess with your ability to position yourself. That there's also 5 ships in the fleet also gives me hope that I can force you to offer something up early for the victories to have something to shoot at. Still going to struggle to get good angles for attack though due to the terrible manoeuvrability of the victories.

Alex

Im currently tweaking a couple of lists, one a classic MC30-er with Hammerheads (at least one - ive bought them so i bloody want them to work! :D ), the other Liberties. My second favourite ship so also want to make them sing.

Richard Deane

I'll look forward to seeing the lists.

I assume Mothma is the one guiding the MC30 list.

Alex

Im tempted to try a Sato MC30 concussion torpedo list, but the "having fighters within distance 1" caveat is quite limiting, and Im looking to include a Hammerhead again so ya, Mothma is where its at - she'll help the Hammerhead (or two) survive that bit better.

Alex

This is the Madine fleet im thinking - aiming to dust off the Nebs and give them a whirl!

[ REBEL FLEET (385 points)
1 • Nebulon-B Support Refit - Dual Turbolaser Turrets - Salvation (63)
2 • GR-75 Medium Transports - Leia Organa - Comms Net (23)
3 • Nebulon-B Support Refit - Dual Turbolaser Turrets - Redemption (64)
4 • CR90 Corellian Corvette B - Engine Techs - Reinforced Blast Doors - Leading Shots - Dodonna's Pride (62)
5 • MC80 Battle Cruiser - General Madine - Raymus Antilles - Gunnery Team - Engineering Team - Leading Shots - Spinal Armament - H9 Turbolasers (173)

Richard Deane

End of the day keeping the ships alive is probably most important but Sato does seem very powerful in conjunction with some of your favourite squadrons. (Like Tycho and the other A-wings.)

Alex

Aye, with Tycho and HWKs he becomes much more useable, but for 32 points his ability is rather easily circumvented (for instance, against your Interceptor force his squadrons would easily melt). Compared to most other admirals his ability is rather too heavily predicated on two "ifs" - if the fighters get into position and if there are any fighters alive to do so.

Madine suits my predilection for constant manoeuvre orders nicely, along with my love of the Liberty.

Alex

Keen to try this - maximises the utility of the Libs with activations, plus feeding them tokens. Not very subtle mind...

[ REBEL FLEET (388 points)
1 • MC80 Battle Cruiser - General Madine - Raymus Antilles - Gunnery Team - Engine Techs - Leading Shots - Spinal Armament - H9 Turbolasers (176)
2 • MC80 Star Cruiser - Gunnery Team - Engine Techs - Leading Shots - Spinal Armament - H9 Turbolasers (132)
3 • GR-75 Medium Transports - Comms Net (20)
4 • GR-75 Medium Transports - Comms Net (20)
5 • GR-75 Medium Transports - Comms Net (20)
6 • GR-75 Medium Transports - Comms Net (20)